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Marco Bertozzi Joins Whalar

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Marco Bertozzi, the former Publicis Media executive and head of European ad sales at Spotify, has joined influencer marketing agency Whalar, Mediatel News can reveal.

Bertozzi has been appointed president of EMEA for Whalar, reporting to CEO Rob Horler, and will take up the role on 25 October.

After leaving Spotify in January, Bertozzi launched his own consultancy and one of his clients, Whalar, has now decided to retain him in a full-time role running its commercial operation in Europe, the Middle East and Africa.

He told Mediatel News: “While I was consulting I realised I was always like, ‘just let me in there and do this stuff!’ Rather than just give advice, I just wanted to climb in and get going. My instincts are always to be in the thick of it.”

Chasing high growth

Whalar, which describes itself as a “dating service” because the site’s algorithm helps brands find creators for collaboration, has been chaired by Sir John Hegarty since 2017 and its board includes R/GA founder Bob Greenberg. Whalar has been backed by Hegarty’s incubator The Garage Soho and was a beneficiary of the R/GA Ventures programme in 2017.

After launching Publicis Groupe’s programmatic trading desk for VivaKi (now Publicis Media Exchange) in 2010 and, before that, Zenith Interactive Solutions, Bertozzi says he has “always gravitated to new things” – specifically high-growth businesses because he is allergic to “managing decline”.

“If you’ve grown up with growth from almost the start of your career, you don’t have this negative reaction having to constantly hit big growth targets, that’s where your expectations sit,” he explains.

Bertozzi will take on duties handled by Emma Harman, who has moved to chief client officer as the business expands. It is understood the business is on forecast to grow by  300% this year, although the company has not disclosed revenue figures.

Whalar, which was founded by James Street and Neil Waller in 2016, is on a hiring spree this year. Waller announced on LinkedIn last month that the company had 85 open roles, having already recruited more than 80 people this year in the US and EMEA.

https://www.linkedin.com/embed/feed/update/urn:li:share:6830539973083717632

Bigger advertiser deals

Bertozzi’s first focus in the role is to assess the needs of the sales team and to ensure the business is geared up to handle much bigger advertiser deals.

“We need to not just go from one piece of work to the next – how do we go to that next level of a proper partnership, so that we can lean in and do our best work and you can realise the benefits of it. So, I’ll be working on the team around who are going to be our clients, what sort of clients should we be going for, how we how we bring the best of Whalar together, to put that into action.”

“It’s fine, when you’re asking advertisers for 30 grand, you can deliver a certain level of service. But if you’re asking them for multi-million budgets, you’ve got to be able to deliver on that in terms of your service and your strategy.

“If you’re going to realise [the founder’s] ambitions, you do need to start to put structure around it, you need to have a focus about how the teams are operating, and how they’re thinking about the marketing industry, how they’re going to market and what they’re saying and presenting.”

The company is one of only three influencer marketing agencies, along with Captiv8 and Influential, that TikTok has allowed to tap into its new creator marketplace API. This allows brands to pay influencers directly through the platform (as well as use measurement tools), while the influencers can tap into an achieve of first-party data and find new work.

At the heart of the business is the Whalar platform, which “makes everything sing,” Bertozzi added. While there are opportunities for brands to work with big names with large Instagram or Twitter followings, Whalar has also pushed advertisers to work with so-called “micro-influencers” who have much smaller followings but are extremely engaging among niche fanbases.

“If a brand really wants to take a message to market in that space, then they’re going to want to work with these people that are very authentic, very genuine and will be able to deliver a real match in terms of what they’re looking for,” Bertozzi said.

‘They’ll know exactly where they stand’

The majority of Whalar’s business is selling directly to advertisers. Bertozzi insists the company is open to working with ad agencies but recognises many of them are creating their own in-house influencer divisions.

Whalar also operates a separate talent management division that is focused on content creation. It has recently launched creator houses, such as the Los Angeles-based Crib Around the Corner, for influencers to collaborate on content creation.

During his tenure at Spotify, Bertozzi expanded the music streaming giant’s operations, after the audio platform had previously made short-lived leadership appointments in the UK.

Bertozzi had previously spent two decades in agency roles at Publicis Media’s Zenith, Starcom and Performics, in the UK and globally.

He describes himself as a frank but fair leader who prioritises empathy and support for colleagues, but insists “they’ll know exactly where they stand at all times”.

“Our obligation is to our clients to do the best job we can, and I just expect them to treat people with respect and speak in a straightforward fashion, I don’t care who they are.

“I run my teams like that. I’m clear with people if things haven’t been going the way they should be going. I started using the term ‘speed back’ [two-minute feedback] ironically recently but it’s sort of caught on. I never let anything build up – everyone I works with will know exactly where I stand at all times.”

Internal recruitment needs to be on brand and empathetic.

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As I continue to consult, mentor and devote time to myself and family I am also concurrently talking to companies about potential future roles. I wanted to reflect on my experiences of this process so far and how I have observed companies deal with me.

I have been working for nearly 25 years, held senior roles in good companies and who knows exactly what that next role will be, and yet I continue to be surprised by how little consideration and communication is given to candidates of my level and experience during these times. In this instance I am mainly focusing on in house recruitment vs agencies. I think there has been an ever growing trend towards in housing of hiring processes, especially amongst the tech companies but also traditional businesses as well. I think with that trend comes a burden on that team that I am not sure all of them realise and are probably not held accountable to from one day to the next.

If you decide as a business to have your employees engage with external candidates, especially senior ones, then they need to have the same ethos as any of your out facing teams. Those interactions set the tone, they leave lasting impressions and who knows may damage future relations depending on where that candidate lands. Bad news travels fast right? Well those looking for a role, especially those not currently employed will be particularly conscious of that brand experience, and that’s what it is, your recruitment team are representing your brand. 

In these short months that I have been engaged with in house recruiters and indeed actual managers within businesses I have experienced many different versions of that process. I have spoken to a couple of companies that have been in communication through out, followed up, did what they said they would do and that’s all one asks. On the other hand I have been blanked. Now let’s be realistic, you can’t always expect things to move forwards, perhaps they don’t like the cut of your jib or your background is not what they wanted and so things don’t progress, we are all grown ups, what I do expect though is feedback and a decline. Take Conde Nast, contacted by them after an application, interview with recruiter, followed by interview with HR and then blanked. I personally believe that if you have asked a candidate to talk twice, you owe them politeness and respect to update and decline or move forwards. 

Hiring is not personal, you should never take it personally, finding the right candidate or job is about finding the round peg to fit in the round hole and it’s easy to find a little edge that catches and stops that fit, that’s fine, it’s natural. What is personal is how you go about doing that and I am afraid there are many external facing recruitment people who are either not trained or not scrutinised as to how they engage candidates. I think it’s a shame for two simple reasons. The first is you can absolutely set the tone of your organisation through these contacts, you are sending a message and when these candidates end up in other businesses, perhaps potential clients, they will feel positively about your business or not and secondly its is not difficult, it’s simple manners, it’s simple communication that costs the recruiter nothing but gives that job hunter a feeling of knowing where they stand and what’s next. 

Finding a new role is so exciting and I am loving all the possibilities, but it’s important to be true to yourself and expect a certain level of respect. Be thoughtful everyone. Times are tough without treating people with no consideration.

Who is going to Cannes? Too soon?

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OK, so lets all agree, no one is going to Cannes right? Or are they? Now the news about lockdown being lifted, maybe things have changed? Cannes is the best example of how the industry is grappling with the post pandemic issues of events and perhaps is the best example of how we are entering a period of being able to create events, but being confronted by the reality of will anyone go?

I think this is the biggest challenge for the coming quarters, not whether events can happen, but rather, should they happen and will anyone go? As I think about events, there are a few areas to consider when trying to predict the future and where we will net out.

  1. Who is paying? We often start with the health dialogue or appropriateness of going, but truth of the matter is someone has to pay and that someone has likely significantly cut the budget. There are very few businesses who will not be coming into 2021 with a slashed events, travel and marketing budget. As most people in corporate work know, once its gone, its really hard to get back and two years of austerity will make that a mountain to climb.
  2. Who blinks first? Putting budget aside, the next one is whether or not when you send people to an event, or go yourself, you become part of a super spreader horror headline, where executives were red faced not because of Rose but because they all caught Covid whilst enjoying some International or even local event. So who wants to be the one that says ‘yes lets invest in this event and go for it.’ Who goes first? 
  3. Virtual events are getting better. I attended an event With Mediatel where they used some latest technology to allow us to virtually mingle, network and chat before and during the event. It was actually pretty good, it created some challenges, there was no opportunity to politely escape a table (not that I needed to, had a lovely bunch) – there was less serendipity, but overall it worked well. I liked the big brother feature where messages were sent out like in 1984 to shepherd guests around. Bottom line this tech is only going to get better and better and so virtual events will continue to evolve and entertain.
  4. Virtual events are driving inclusion in our industry. Cannes or CES is an extreme of course but its the everyday events that I think our the hardest to navigate in person. Some are not going to be worth the time and effort, even if cost is not an issue to come to from say Manchester or anywhere over 2 hours, even if the content is solid. Now they are virtual, people from all over the country, even the world can join. I also think the charging model can change to be less aggressive knowing more people will join. I think that is really exciting for the industry and for those organizers and importantly sponsors. I was surprised at the event mentioned above that there were no sponsors in the networking area, or anywhere really, that is an opportunity and suddenly you may be reaching 1000 people instead of 200, that becomes interesting. We should embrace the chance to have more people from different backgrounds attend our events.
  5. Charging models. I believe that events need to really look at how they are charging now, it is a seminal moment to review events and consider the best way to maximize utility and commercial gain. Micro payments in my mind are still woefully under utilized. Let’s say there is an event on Digital Audio. It would be great if lets say you were going for a job in that sector to go to the site, pay a fee and get to watch the whole event. Perhaps there are subscription options as well for certain companies. All in all, commercials should now take into account larger audiences online, follow up micro or one off payments to a whole range of other people and perhaps a subscription model for all the events. Makes things interesting perhaps?
  6. Content has to improve. Anyone who was not a content organizer will say that the number of events and awards was getting out of hand, everyone enjoys winning but there is only so much that can be done and paid for in a year. I also think because of that content was not good enough, not prepared enough and rushed through in too many situations (not all). I hope that when we do have live events again, organizers realise that it should be quality over quantity or I think many cash strapped companies will politely decline. If that is a product of all this, that can only be good for organizers and attendees.

So as things start to ease and we plan our future, will we be rushing back to live events together, or will we be looking to have face to face for only the very most premium occasions and lets face it, in 2022, or will we be rushing back to how it was. I would love to see the return of some live events and perhaps for the first time, as with many things, people have realised that they took these events for granted and actually they do have a worth beyond the content. 

There is an opportunity to change and adapt, I have seen some real progress already through lock down and I am certain there will be more to come, we should embrace these changes and make them work alongside our new working environment where I believe the combination of virtual and face to face will be very much the norm.

After 25 years – the network comes into its own.

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Since posting on LinkedIn my departure from Spotify, I have been enjoying some down time of sorts. What I have not been doing is staring at Google Hangouts for hours everyday. Instead I have been meeting with lots of different people, some I knew and some I did not and hearing about what they are up to, it feels like a rush of different inputs all of a sudden after a long period of having the same circle of contacts for a long while.

I have spoken to people in the fin tech space, dating app space, beauty, sales, sports and more, yes the completely switch off and relax thing did not exactly happen, but hearing about all these industries has been fascinating and exciting.

Taking a break from work has not been the big, wave crashing relief you might expect but more a gradual reduction in stress, it feels like that long summer holiday where the first week is a little better but your mind is still wired in, second week things start to really chill and if you get beyond that, then you are into forgetting password territory. I am in the area of relaxing, but still keeping the mind alert with the conversations and discussions, just not that consistent pressure we all have from a normal 9-5 job, especially in today’s climate.

Something else very exciting has happened in the last few weeks, I have reconnected with so many old friends and contacts which has been a breath of fresh air, something that we all aspire to doing but just never do, thank you to everyone who has been in touch for one reason of another. Whether it is to be a moderator of a panel, on a panel, fireside chat in another company, help and advice, these last few weeks have been rich with interaction and that has been amazing.

As per my previous post on Ikigai, I have had so much discussion about ‘what next’ and well, I realised that now is the time to go for it because, well, what else is there too do?! I have put more and more thought into the next role and as I have spoken to people and really analysed, I am more excited than ever to take what I have learned over the last 25 years and put it into practice. 

I also have realised how many people right now are not working, I joked about launching a podcast for highly talented operators who were not currently working, pretty sure it hit a nerve and there are many out there who don’t want a rest or a break, they want to work. Great to see businesses coming for this talent pool, putting it to good work. Stefan Bardega with http://www.traktion.ai as well as Kate Merritt and team with http://www.libertyhive.com and there are others. Its inspiring to meet people all those out there scrapping away, building things, innovating and in some cases just starting their independent journey. It’s pretty wonderful to see.

So fully expecting a quiet lull to come soon after the wave of contacts, hopefully will stay in touch with many and excited for the leads and next steps. Even in this shitty period there is opportunity everywhere. Just got to make it happen.

Diversity in work just needs a will

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Post was first posted on Mediatel here.

Like many, over recent months I’ve been thinking about how we go about improving diversity in the work force. During my last few months at Spotify I underwent 20 to 30 hours of training and education, and asked the business to think hard about how we could approach change practically.

Now, on reflection, I’ve simplified that thinking into just two required elements for progression in diversity within a business: a will to change, and commercial support from the top. 

In countries like the UK and US, I would argue that the only thing stopping your team from achieving true diversity is your leader. If your team isn’t diverse, it’s because there is no real will to change. If there is a strong will, decisions will be made around hiring, inclusivity in the business and how the team operates. 

Often people look at the boards of companies to assess how well they are dealing with this topic, but I suggest delving down through a few layers of the company. If the picture remains the same, that’s a sure sign of a serious issue. 

So in countries where the popular workforce is diverse, a will to change from leadership is all that matters when it comes to making progress in reflecting that diversity within businesses. 

There is, however, one exception to that rule. When it comes to entry level talent programmes, there needs to be some significant investment. 

In every business there should be an allocation and a programme for work placements. Still, so few companies do this well. With a little time and a little investment, this can change. 

After years of Speakers for Schools work and more recently getting to know The Youth Group, a business working to improve the odds for young people, it is clear that creating work placements and apprenticeships is key to improving diversity within teams and giving young, diverse talent a chance to succeed. 

However, I have been running European businesses for over ten years, and in many countries the advertising industry has been almost entirely white in its ethnic makeup. Even with the best will, a leader in advertising in Spain or Italy is going to really struggle to find diverse candidates. 

So what has to happen in those markets if anything is to change? 

Firstly, businesses need to bring on board less experienced candidates than they might otherwise. For those in sales, that has to be acknowledged in the numbers. Or else time needs to be allocated to bring those less experienced candidates up to speed. 

And secondly, businesses need to allocate actual budget for long term recruitment practices, creating a better pipeline for talent by researching into other industries. The talent may be out there, but not yet in advertising. 

Of course, the only person who can sign off on these things is the person at the very top. Leaders have to put their words into actions with money, not just time. They have to create space for change and make it a priority – not just in what they say they care about, but what they put their cash behind. 

The talent is there, but it either needs to be nurtured, or it needs to be persuaded that this is a great industry to be a part of, that there are huge opportunities to get involved with here, and that this is where they should want to be. 

So let’s look to the top and ask for the money, time and space to succeed with improving the diversity of our teams.

Can you answer ‘what do you love?’ When it comes to work.

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Let me start by thanking Jon Ghazi for sending over an article in about Ikigai, the Japanese view on how to have a long and happy life. Why did we discuss it, well when you leave work and start to talk to lots of people about what next, some very simple but powerful questions come along with that chat.

When you meet someone and you work for a company, conversation is straight forward as it focuses on what you do, why you do it, what the company or service does and that’s the limits often of the discussion. When you are not working the questions are different. The questions often move towards things like:

What do you want to do?

Where do you want to work?

What things do you like?

How about doing something for yourself?

You get the idea, these seem simple but are challenging questions. Jon Ghazi sent me this article https://medium.com/thrive-global/ikigai-the-japanese-secret-to-a-long-and-happy-life-might-just-help-you-live-a-more-fulfilling-9871d01992b7

It was very timely as I was deep into thinking about these topics, nothing solved just yet, but really good food for thought. Basically your Ikigai is the intersection of what you are good at and what you love doing..

The theory is What you love doing, what the world needs, what you are good at and what you can get paid for, simple right? Wow that’s no easy feat and when you have time to think it through, it becomes more challenging and when you don’t have the anchor of a job it makes it somehow harder. However, it is also an opportunity for real introspection and hard questions that will help in the next decisions about roles you want to consider.

I first thought that I would simplify the questions to more day to day language.

A) What do I love? – When I am feeling good, what is making that happen?

B) What am I good at? – When am I most in my zone and reactions are positive

C) What can I paid for now? – What can I get paid for at my current level and what am I willing to sacrifice if need be

D) What does the world need? – Can you feel good about what you do?

As I think about these categories, I am going to try and tie them down to my career, my ambitions and abilities and see if we can come up with some direction. At the end of the day, this to me is about categories. Yes I can say that I can do sales, or I have worked in agencies etc but I cant answer the question ‘What job do you want? Or. Do you want to work in agencies?’ I cant because its not about jobs or industries or sub categories, for me it is about categories of skills and likes.

What do I love?

I actually think this is the hardest, love is a strong word. Hence why above I changed it to what makes me feel good. I feel good when I am with people, I feel good when I have a big group of people who are looking for direction, support, reassurance and confidence. 

I feel good when I am confident enough to turn to people in that group and ask for their feedback and suggestions. (So many leaders feel the pressure to have all the answers and see it as a weakness to ask for input)

I love seeing teams and people succeed, it feels great when plans come to fruition and results follow. It feels great when you did plan something and it comes off as you planned. 

I enjoy seeing a mass of jigsaw pieces which could be team or people issues, could be advertiser or client challenges, could be any of the daily challenges we get – I love sifting through them and making sense of them.

I love leading people in work, not an egotistic, power hungry way, but because I love seeing the results and it is where I feel good. 

What am I good at?

Ahh now to say this out loud is always hard, easier to tell a headhunter or in an interview. Well after my LinkedIn post I have taken some reassurance that what I think I am good at, is supported by the wonderful people out there and the many people who have worked for me over the years.

The biggest two words that came out of the LinkedIn word cloud was ‘Inspirational leader’  I know, sounds arrogant, it is not meant to be and the reason why is its been a long and hard journey to even contemplate saying those words. It’s been the accumulation of knowledge and experiences from all of my bosses and co workers and friends. Everything we have and everything we are is learned. I thank all of the amazing people through my career.

Let me break that down a little. Let’s start with ‘Inspirational’ its not cult like, screaming into a mic type inspiration. I think it is the ability to take a group of people and make them feel good about what they are doing, give them hope that they are growing and have more potential in them than they themselves think. I think it is the ability to bring the best out of people, to help themselves grow and learn. This is not always knowing everything, being the smartest in the room, having every answer, no sometimes it is just not having the answers and asking people to help you with them. It’s about caring about issues your team care about. It’s about responding.

Being a leader is really fucking lonely, you could be a manager of a few people or leading a whole team across a region or globe, it’s lonely and stressful BUT lets be clear, part of being a leader is to take that on, yes people look up to you, they want you to be able to take decisions and make shit happen. Sometimes those things are not always nice, sometimes it upsets people. If anyone reads this looking for advice, I have a number one piece of advice. You cant be friends with everyone and always make them happy. The teams I have inherited who previously had bosses who wanted to be loved and always have good news, were the teams that were hardest to get back on track. People have to know when they are doing good or not and sometimes the answer to ‘am I being promoted’ or ‘will I get that big pay rise’ is no.

I have loved leading teams and I have built a loyal base of people who come to me for advice, who I have reemployed, who I have become friends with and I am super proud of them and I feel good about what I have achieved in that area.

What can I get paid for?

Compensation is a really interesting aspect to work. We all obsessed about it over the years, the younger you are the more intense it is and through the years I have chased the cash and not got it, other times I have stopped chasing it, and it came my way. I have moved jobs for money and it was a huge mistake, I have moved jobs for the passion and the money came and on and on. 

I can get paid for what I do, question is how much and how much it dominates your decisions and choices. I am lucky enough now that for me, I want to get paid my worth but it is not a primary driver. Sometimes you are overlooked on roles because they think it is not paid well enough and they don’t ask if you would consider it. Madness, hire the person who wants the job and has chosen to take a hit. Choose the person who wants the job, even if it looks less senior, in our industry we obsess too much about whether a job is more senior than the last. Far better to join a great company on a lesser position or salary than take a job in an average business for more money and more senior role. That’s my belief anyway. I have seen it work out great for people who have done that, ignore the negs.

What does the world need

As above I have changed that to suit a slightly more down to earth version for our day to day. I massively admire people who do things that actively change the world, I think that is a wonderful thing to see.

I think as it comes to our careers and mine in particular I am focused on roles that make you feel like you have a purpose and brands that matter in some way to the world. It could be how they are empowering, democratizing or revolutionizing the world.  I have learned a few things a long the way about my motivations. Mainly that passion for where I work or what I do is incredibly important. I have worked in a couple of roles and the absence of passion left me cold and I am clear about not repeating that, yes it is a profession but its not where I want to be.

I came up with the  #LoveAds while at Spotify and it created quite a discussion and at first some skepticism internally but in time I think it achieved something, which was to get people to realise that advertising like everything in life can be done well or be done badly and we focus on the bad often, but advertising does a lot of good. So much of our lives are filled with content and services paid for by advertising and that’s pretty cool. The perfect situation is a consumer brand, it is so great getting feedback from people around you, people knowing what your business does and sometimes it is not all positive, but that’s OK, still a great sensation.

So where does that leave us? Well for me, I have focused on categories of careers that I do and don’t want and thats as far as I am going to go. Anything more and it gets limiting, too specific. I want to work in Formula 1, that would be a passion but I want to be more opened minded than that right now. So on reflection here are my categories:

Category 1: Development

Development sounds so boring, but its not, its an attempt to catch the many different types of businesses and situations you may consider. Some companies will need to modernise, perhaps stuck in the past, perhaps populated by too many people who have always been in that business, perhaps not digital enough, perhaps going backwards. The list is broad, why do I choose this, well its where leadership is incredibly important as well as working in high growth businesses with digital front and center.

Category 2: Fresh set of eyes

I have already had approaches from companies who are looking for a commercial mindset but need a person who will ask completely fresh set of questions, as Rishad would say, where the future wont fit in the containers of the past. Spotify is a great business because it never stops changing and growing and people want to have some of that in their business.

Category 3 : Hitting the ground running

Businesses that are sound and interesting but want to have someone more high profile and connected to accelerate the business forwards. Someone who knows what growth looks and feels like. Putting a business on the map is something I feel very confident about, here and abroad and actually have a lot of fun doing that, I love representing great businesses.

Category 4 : Big and Beautiful

I think it is so exciting working in businesses that have a range of products and services, they have big and varied customer base, that has the power to literally create businesses, change industries and set the agenda. I think this is a wonderful place to be. Some people are not keen on big companies and all the things that go with them, but I feel relaxed there and would be happy to return.

I am starting out on the 3rd act in my career. I am incredibly excited about what it will hold, and I am going to hold on to some of these principles and try to guide my way through the choices ahead. Always ready for a left field opportunity and an invite to go work for an F1 team, ideally as a driver! I have a lot of contacts out there, your support has been amazing and thank you for what you have already done. 

Office life vs my spare room, no contest.

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I would like the office to return. I speak for myself, not for my colleagues, with no expectations that others do but for myself. The recent Google announcement will reignite the debate about the end of the office culture and It makes me a little sad. So much good has come from the office environment, sure it was not perfect and certainly came with some downsides, but on the whole it worked because of one simple thing. We don’t want to spend our lives perched in a room somewhere staring at a small screen and for the most part we don’t want to be alone. Offices at their very heart are social places where we thrive off social interaction. I sometimes think that is lost in the war on office culture.

I have come to the conclusion that those who claim the end of the office culture have some skin in the game, either their next book, a training course in how to work from home, some thesis on office culture does not work now so quick pivot to not office culture. Perhaps it could also be the companies who do want to save money in some way, there will be some of those too, but don’t point at Google, the office costs are a pin drop in the ocean of their total revenues.

So what does need to change? We need to optimise the work from home vs work in the office. Pre Covid many people were starting to talk about four day weeks and could they work? They could not have seen what was about to strike us all, but perhaps they were already understanding that the commute was the issue, the wasted time spent in hours of travel every day, the delays, the cancellations, the rigidity. Imagine the life of those tortured commuters on the broken railway franchises, they must be so happy right now!? Perhaps not. Perhaps what they needed was flexibility, perhaps a rigid start time or being able to work from home a couple of days would have helped them a lot, helped us all a lot. We made our lives so hard with that rigidness, all forced to travel at once, pay crazy prices, standing on trains. That to me is where the transition has to occur, less rigidity, more trust but always have the ability to come together when we need to, be able to look forward to coming together.

Some are pointing to the concept of online communities and how powerful they are, should we be more like that, we should learn from them, I just don’t buy it. All online communities have a real element to them, whether it’s around events, meetings, concerts, get together, coffee mornings, drinks they all have some support mechanism in the real world, work can be this. I think I would enjoy home work more if I knew I could go to London tomorrow and meet up with colleagues. I would enjoy that video conference call that avoided an early commute more if the next Monday I could see the team in Italy in person. What I absolutely can’t look forward to is staring at my computer, in a spare room for the rest of my career, that for me holds no happiness, no joy and anyone who is selling their next book about ‘How to thrive running your business in your spare room’ will find short thrift here.

One thing to be clear on though, this is not a rallying cry against whatever sensible, medical conditions we have to abide by, I am happy doing whatever the sensible medical rules say and for as long as it takes, this is about the future and how I want to live and work in the future. Flexibility between home and office being at its heart. I for one look forward to the hope of being with teams again.

My answers on getting a job, interviewing for school leavers and students.

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I was lucky enough to take part in a Speakers4schools virtual talk and Q&A. I was blown away by the attendance, 1100 kids and 300 questions asked. Lock down or not I could not manage all 300 so I answered 18 that were sent as follow ups. If you are a school leaver or student, thinking about getting a job, work experience or how to prepare for interviews then I hope there are some useful tips!

1. What is your morning routine? Well I think my morning routine can be described as a pre and post Covid situation. Before COVID I would aim to be in the office for 830 so everything works back from there. Normally I will try and grab a few minutes with my son as he prepares to go to school, but after that quickly down to the station, so unfortunately not a good example as I don’t eat breakfast! I will try and grab something before I get to work, or when I arrive if I have time. The one rule I do have is that I don’t look at my email until I consider that work has started. As I have American bosses, I normally have a lot of emails landing in my inbox overnight, I consider the start of work to be when I am ready. It was a piece of advice I once received that if you roll over and check your email while still waking up and you see some bad news, it can spike adrenaline that is bad for the mind and body, just like sprinting before you have warmed up. The train is basically the start of my work so I’ll grab myself a coffee at the station and sit down and start to go through what has arrived through the night, I think about the day ahead, check my calendar and see what meetings I have planned, and hope I am ready for them. And that’s my routine.

2. At what age would you say was a good age to start at you first Saturday or holiday job? I don’t think there’s any rules around how young you start your first job. All work is work so if you’re helping your parents clean the car, or helping out around the house that is the start of life‘s work ethic. I think if you want to have lots of experience on your CV by the time you’re getting ready to leave Secondary School then you should have attempted to do some simple jobs we discussed; paper rounds, working in a shop perhaps some basic office work. Work experience is not always so much about the actual act of work but it’s what it says about you as a person and what you are learning to do. So when you’re thinking about your CV and you are thinking about what to do you should be thinking about what someone reading your CV would read into it. I gave the example of a paper round. The fact one has to do it every day, has to get up early before school shows a lot of commitment and energy and strength that tells someone about you. In the long run if you are thinking of working in an office then try and get experience in an office environment, but working in bars, restaurants is all important. What does working in a restaurant teach you? It teaches you customer Service, teaches you how to deal with people, it’s all life skills.

3. What is the hardest part of applying for a job and what was the atmosphere like when you first entered the interview? The hardest part about applying for jobs is the actual work you have to put into it, it is very tempting to write one letter, send it to 100 people, one email, send to hundred people, and hope that some of them will stick. Getting your first job is one of the most important things you will do in your life, so you have to treat it like that, and you have to put the work in to do it successfully. My suggestion is to start narrow and work out, so pick your top 10/20 companies that you want to work for and really do your research on them. Then and only then, should you send an email because that email should be full of insights and highlights you’ve understood from your research. Don’t take this work lightly, it’s a job in itself but if you do it well you are more likely to succeed. As far as research is concerned, follow the Twitter, LinkedIn, and Instagram accounts and read through them, as you will understand what is on their minds and what’s important to these companies in real time. Make sure you know when their internship program starts, make sure you understand if they have have work placements, do all the suitable research you can and then, finally, don’t be afraid to track a few people down, it is absolutely fine to contact someone directly on LinkedIn with a well written note and express your interest. It’s important that you start with that kind of communication.

4. What are good interview tips? and what can you do to stop yourself sounding nervous in an interview? Those are two very big questions! I’ll start with the interview tips, they’re not going to sound very interesting because some are very basic, but I can assure you a lot of people get them wrong. If indeed you do get them right you will put yourself in the top 30% of all the people who interview. So first of all make sure you do the basics; turn up well before the interview time, don’t take chances, don’t plan for 15 minutes before because that can be eaten up very quickly with delays. Turn up an hour before, and go and have a coffee, then you stake the place out and you’re ready to go. Secondly, it’s important to dress smartly – now a jacket and tie may seem an overkill nowadays, and probably is, but it is a sign that you care and that you really want the job, I personally don’t believe it will be taken as a negative, I think it shows that you’re trying to be as smart as you can which can never be a bad thing. That said if it’s not a shirt and tie I think it’s fine to have more casual clothing, just be smart smart casual and well turned out.

Lastly, and most importantly, do your research, don’t be afraid to ask who is interviewing, try and get the name of the person because perhaps you can search them online. My favourite is if they have presented at an event and it is on Youtube, you really get a feeling for them. Maybe they put stuff on LinkedIn etc, this is a window for you to understand something about the interviewer, and what happens is when you enter the interview you feel like you know them a little bit better and you will naturally feel relaxed. Don’t over use the information; I suggest not repeating back to them things are set on Twitter or on LinkedIn, just use it as background information and try to combine with your answers so it sounds a bit more organic. Lastly, do your research on the company as we said before in terms of writing the letter don’t answer obvious questions with obvious answer if Sam says ‘Why do you want to work at Spotify’ don’t say because you ‘love music’, say it’s because you’ve been reading about the sustainability policy, and that is something you care about deeply and you only want work for companies that have that kind of policy. Make sure you know everything about the job you’re doing as much as you can. I would also suggest trying to find out if there are people you know in the industry that you’re trying to get into, that could be distant relatives friends or friends of friends, ask around, because a single conversation could give some tips and insight into what actually happens in these companies, and it will make you sound much better than the candidate who hasn’t been able to get that inside information.

The question about nervousness is a really really good one, there are good tips and techniques about this, but without sounding repetitive one of the best things that will make you feel less nervous if you are well prepared. If you know your topic, if you’re prepared, if you’ve written notes, if you thought about it, I promise you you’re going to feel more confident when you walk into that room. Always make sure that you have prepared for the easiest questions, what I often see and hear when people are practising for interviews is, take a question like ‘why should I hire you’ for instance and in your head you may have a really great plan for that answer, yeah I know I’m gonna talk about this I’m gonna talk about that. This is where nerves kick in and if you have not practiced, you can fluff your lines! Make sure to have a proper answer to why should I hire you and why do you want to work at this company, that needs just as much effort as working at the balance sheet of a company or whatever else you might prepare for. The other small tip for the interview is people often ask you about your life, tell me about the things you’ve done, tell me about the job you’ve done, what you don’t need to do is go through those jobs one by one and explain each one of them. Have a story ready, in business they often talk about the elevator pitch; it basically means how could you describe yourself or your company in 2 minutes, so what you have to do is script an overall story that people can follow, that will describe your journey and highlight the most important aspects that say the most about you.

5. How does good communication skills play a role in an interview? There are two things to take into account in an interview; good communication and good knowledge, we talked a lot about good knowledge so I won’t go over that again, so good communication becomes the next biggest thing. Body language is an incredibly important aspect, it may sound a little bit daunting but in actual fact people judge you very quickly in the first 10 seconds so you have the potential to lose an interview. As you wait to be seen, dont slouch around on a couch staring at your phone. Be upright and attentive, always be polite to receptionists, look around you, read any materials lying around about the company. When you’re being welcomed stand up straight and confident, be confident and don’t be afraid to ask questions about how they are, shake their hands firmly (if we are still shaking hands), and don’t have too much clutter, bags and jackets, keep it simple, keep it clean. When you come into the room if they ask if you want a coffee, my suggestion is to probably say no, I am just always one for keeping it simple, you can sit down at the same time, and get on with the meeting. In the interview, sit up straight, lean into the conversation, that is then giving signals that you’re keen and enthusiastic and you want the job. My last piece of advice on this that I was given, which I wish I had remembered back in the day, if halfway through or at the start of an interview you don’t like the feel of the person or you don’t like the sound of the job keep going like it’s the most important job you’re ever going to get. What happens is because there is an interviewer will pick up on your disinterest and write you off but maybe by the end of the interview, you change your mind and have warmed into the sound of the role, but by then it will be too late. You only should only worry about whether you want the job or not when it’s offered to you, before then you have to impress. My final tip on the interviews is that you may be interviewing in three or four different categories of industries like finance, advertising and travel. Treat every interview as if it is the only job you have ever wanted. It is totally fine to be interviewing with different companies within finance but an interviewer does not want to hear you say you would happily work in travel or finance or whatever – that shows indecisiveness and not enough desire, so keep that to yourself!

6. On a scale from 1-10 how determined do you think you were in getting the job you applied for? It is funny you should ask that question because my very first boss will tell you, and this is very old sounding, that the fax machine was ringing non stop on their desk with me repetitively sending my application letter. I didn’t actually do that to pester them, I just wasn’t sure if it was getting through so I kept sending it! If I see that person now today 25 years later they still remember it and I still still talk about it, so I think it’s fair to say that I was pretty determined and then I think if you really want the job it’s the only way to be

7. What advice would you give to current year 12s who are writing their personal statements who as a result of Covid-19 restrictions are unable to fulfil their work experience? That is a really good question, and I know it is incredibly difficult for people today in this situation. The only thing I can say is always be honest, honesty will always come first, but start to think about how you could frame your experience. Think in terms of what you wanted to achieve or perhaps what you missed out on doing, but at least set out what your plans were during this period of time with complete honesty. I would say don’t waste time when you come out of the situation start to think about what you can do in advance and, depending on your age, perhaps it’s something you can do now to volunteer through this difficult times, which I know would always look make future employers look favourably upon your work ethic and show how you care about the community around you.

8. How can you write a CV if you have not had a job or work experience before? I think for your early CV, if you don’t have work experience, focus on your school career, perhaps think about anything that you have contributed during your school career. If you haven’t done that, then think creatively about what you could say your interests have been, what your interests are and so on. I will say though that not having work experience is something that you should probably start to sort out.

9. Do you normally have to rely on a person’s CV to know about his/her skills? The later into your career you go, the less we rely on the CV, whether it is Linkedin or contacts in the industry, or just searching the industry news, we can find out a lot. LinkedIn will tell them a lot about where you’ve worked how long you’ve worked there and so on. As you start your career I think yes the CV is an important starting point. I would suggest that you consider how to make it is as good as possible because we will go there first. Perhaps you have been in the local newspaper or had some kind of recognition so please make sure to mention in cover note. Your cover note is very important, it tells the story of your CV, it allows you to shine outside of just the CV.

11. What would you recommend for those of us who do not have the opportunity for work experience? (I live in a rural area with few local jobs) Obviously I can’t suggest without knowing exactly where you live or what is this happening there but I would check to make sure that you’re not being too picky about what jobs are available. Would you wash up in a pub, would you deliver newspapers, what would you do or not do because if you are being selective about what you would do, you are making life tough for yourself. If none of those things work then perhaps you can find a way to be a little entrepreneurial and create your own little business, perhaps a car washing enterprise, perhaps you can help people in the community, perhaps you can volunteer, volunteering is incredibly important and we have not touched on that; if you don’t have work experience, volunteering is the perfect way to show that you care both about the community around you, that you’ve got a work ethic and a drive to do something even in your local area for free, especially in a period like now.

12. What is the difference between the access to jobs in your time and now? I can only talk about my industry, but I would say that what we have seen over the last few years a big increase in realisation that we have to not be fishing in the same ponds. So in the white collar marketplace the default has always been to hire graduates. Now there is a much greater need for diversity and inclusion, which is incredibly important in the workplace and people are looking to scholarships and work placements and internships that are more inclusive than ever before. There is a much greater focus on the creation of opportunities that don’t rely on graduate degrees, and a willingness to see beyond the obvious set of benchmarks. So I’m encouraged that opportunities have opened up for school leavers and others which has to be a good thing. That said, it is a slow process and the BAME community is still not represented well because of hiring as much as anything, it has to accelerate.

13. Did you think that you would be in your current position when you were Young? I always like to put that question back into context of if I was 18 and you offered me my current job role and company at this age, I would absolutely take it now. I would never have imagined that I could have ended up being at such a great company in a really interesting job at 48! At school, I would have been described as an average student for the type of school it was, yet here I am. So I didn’t think back then that I would be in any specific job, the only thing that I would say, I had self confidence and determination to keep working hard. I mentioned on the Q&A that my parents are an inspiration for hard work and determination and I definitely had that built in, and always felt that if I kept pushing, kept trying and didn’t let defeats set me back that I could achieve something.

14. What sort of things does your job entail? And what experience did you have before you joined the company? My role is about leadership, now there are lots of definitions, but the way I would describe leadership is you have to be a good communicator, both in the company and externally, you have to set a direction and a goal for people to be able to get behind and understand. Everyone likes to know where they are heading and why they’re heading there. It is also a role that is not always pleasant, you have to make tough decisions about people and structures. You don’t do it lightly, but if you have a plan and you understand what the end benefits of this will be it is important to stick to your plan. Although this job was very different from previous roles, there were some needs that required what we called transferable skills. That means that some things you do are very specific, others can carry from one job to another in a different industry, leadership skills are very much an example. That is why it is important to understand your skills and grow them in any role you may be in, because you don’t know what the next job may be.

15. Have u been through challenges? How did you overcome them? Great question! Careers are long, careers often have ups and downs, the part of it where things go great and accelerate very quickly, but there are points where your career may plateau slightly and become a bit uneventful. The key to your career is to recognise the different stages and when to make the right decisions. I was fortunate enough to make a couple of decisions in my career that took me into parts of my industry when they were very early on and most people were not interested in them, but then turned out to be huge. That put me in growth sectors and exciting times. That always takes a little bit of stubbornness, and not listening to everyone around you. But as I say careers are long and you have to not panic when you do have a difficult patch. Equally if you are happy at work, my advice is hang on to it, careers are long and it is important to try and be happy at work. I had a period of my career in a company that I really didn’t enjoy and ultimately I had to take leave from that company and I was out of work for a few months. During that time I never once thought that I wouldn’t get back to where I wanted to be, in fact the 18 months experience taught me exactly what I did not want out of a job and after I wrote my tick list I worked hard and I chased companies that fitted my ideal job. The next seven years of my career were possibly some of the happiest and most successful, it just shows, a set back does not have to be the end. Just dig in and keep trying.

16. Do you need to be able to work well with other people to work for Spotify? and is there any way in which disabled people can get employed by big companies? I think any company has a requirement to work well with other people, how we communicate with each other, collaborate with each other, and work with often quite complex matrix of teams to deliver on projects is all part of working office life. So yes, I would assume that that has to be part of the equation for my industry. Every industry is different however and of course there are more jobs that are more insular and don’t require a lot of team interaction. There is absolutely no reason why a disabled person should not be able to find employment and whether it’s Spotify or elsewhere, it’s an area that is Incredibly important, There is so much further to go in terms of making that a reality at scale though. But I know there’s a lot of good people and a lot of great companies that want to make sure that they create opportunities for everyone in an equal and fair way.

17. Do you think music can change someone’s life who has Cerebral palsy? That is such an interesting question, I don’t have a specific response to that but I do know that we have worked with Parkinsons as an example, and we teamed up with a Parkinson‘s charity where they studied how the repetitive beat of certain music could help people judge the steps as they walk and time the steps with the music. So I absolutely think music is important. It’s also important to mental health as well as physical and wellness issues. It’s one of the reasons why I love working in the Music industry, and work at a company like Spotify because we have various examples of where we have used music to help others and it is incredibly inspiring.

18. What is the best way to make your music stand out on Spotify i.e be selected for Editorial playlists? We talk a lot about this topic and I think everyone wishes there was a magic wand that you could wave to achieve that. The truth of it is that everyone who wants to be registered on the scene has to get out and has to play and has to do the hard yards to be able to get noticed. In effect playlists are a combination of data and human editors, but data is actually probably one of the most important factors early on where we can see if artists are popping. Those spikes in listening often come from an artist being out on the road and growing their fan base. There have never been more ways for an artist to be seen and heard. All the social media channels can be used to grow an artists visibility, then they get listened to, streams grow on the platform and then perhaps you get noticed by our editors. It is s complex business but as with everything we have said in this Q&A, hard work first!

Corona Virus Log. I miss meetings.

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Running a team in this climate is very hard right? I am navigating my way through these weeks, one day at a time, and i know that most of you out there feel the same. Since starting at Spotify my focus has been on trying to make sure I have been visible across the region, visiting markets, keeping regular management meetings going, and being out with clients wherever I have visited. I cant do any of that right now.  I have never seen the value more of face to face. I would defend an offsite all day long now.

I have always observed that sales is a business that over indexes on momentum, energy, determination and a strong dose of inter-personal skills. My view has been that one person can change everything in a sales team as a leader, much more so than in an agency, just a different dynamic, a different mentality. So what happens when you take that away. Well for me, I feel like it is really hard to understand and get your arms around whats happening. You cant judge the mood, you don’t read between the lines, the Hangouts with multiple people, stuttering, difficult calls where it is hard to reveal the true emotions of people, I feel like I cant connect. I hope they are coping, I hope we are saying and doing the right things, but it is hard to know.

Ignore the fucking Work from home articles: I have studiously ignored the articles on how to work at home, not because there are not some smart tips, but because every person is living their own challenge. So often in businesses we are forced to come up with guide lines, guard rails, suggestions and or rules, but I feel that right now they are all useless. We all want different things, we are all living a very private life. If we do an all hands, there are people in big houses, with big gardens and country side, through to people sharing a small flat with 4+ others, we are at various stages of lock down and length of shut downs, the rules don’t work. The only rule is let people work it out, let them adjust.

In defence of meetings: I know things will change, we will challenge a lot of what we have done before, the obese list of trade magazine events that we have all inflated will have to decline as we realise that we have lived happily without them as an example. That said I don’t agree with a lot of other stuff. There are some very vociferous attackers of meetings, I have come to miss meetings, I now wish I could sit in a room and discuss a plan with someone without the video glitching or wifi issues – it is SD vs HD. Its like emails, when people say that after they have done their emails, they can get on with their work..I am sorry but many of my emails are work, and many meetings help me achieve a lot and by god I miss them now.

Pros and cons of Lock down: I read a fascinating letter from someone in Italy who was predicting our future and the one thing that really struck me was the apathy, the lethargy, this view that we can do so much with our time, but in reality, life is being sucked out of us, one day at a time. It is being replaced on the positive side by some small wins, personally for me, that is spending more time with my family, as someone who travels relentlessly this is a bonus. I have never been at home with my son, outside of holidays ever, this bit is special. As I said above, we all have to do our own thing, I feel better doing constructive things either work related or home that have a clear start and finish, something I can tick off to drive progress.

In support of hearing from others: In the last few days I have reached out to clients from across the spectrum, I did not have anything to sell, I just wanted to hear from someone else, I wanted to learn what was happening in other industries, learn from others. I am so glad I did, it has been a good day today – thanks to those who spoke with me, I learned stuff and felt like I had moved on. It will be something I continue to do, I hope there are many more people I talk to over coming months – your shit is very interesting to me.

We are busier than ever: I have saved a commute of about an hour each way, thats two hours plus a day saved, and yet..I feel like I am constantly checking my watch, every day we attempt to do so much. Well being, work, home schooling, walking kid/dog, play with kid, work more, be mindful. Its a tread mill, I am now grappling with my agenda to get back on top of meetings and calls, I think we have to shift our days, we have to find a new way – I feel like we are trying to do everything, everyday?

What do I miss?

  • A relaxed chat with someone without straining for sound or vision
  • Being able to draw on a wall and brainstorm
  • Walk into a bar or restaurant and hug some friends
  • Some friendly laughing and joking at work
  • Getting on a flight to anywhere in the world and seeing people you know
  • Varied menus!
  • Seeing my son play with all his mates at football or just messing around
  • Seeing all the kids pour into school, all chattering away

I did not write this for any end goal, more a stream of consciousness. This blog has been going for 10+ years, it is a diary of my last decade plus and somehow it felt right to log a journal of this crazy time we are all living through. A friend of mine once said as we hit a tough part of a long run, ‘just put one foot in front of the other’ that seemed sensible at the time and right now, that is the best we can all do. Big hugs to everyone out there and best of luck with whatever way you choose to put one foot in front of the other.

 

Is kids mental health being left behind?

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I sent a tweet last week that seemed to hit a chord. It started with a chat in the office about school homework with Sam Hicks and the pressure that builds around doing it, who does it, tuition etc. It is something that is a regular conversation with all parents of kids at a certain age. Parents will pretty much universally agree that as kids they did not have to do as much at a certain age, around 9ish. No one remembers the same level of activity, homework, after school activities, weekend stuff, it’s frenetic for a nine year old. The most important thing for me, it’s seven days a week.

The thing is, it coincides with the sea changes going on in society and in the work places. Just look at the ‘interruption’ to BGT the other night? At our work place and many others over the world companies are working hard to support people who may be suffering with mental health. There are very visible initiatives like Mediacom with Josh pushing the agenda very hard, at Spotify we have Heart and Soul at its core with lots of opportunities for support and to talk openly which some of our team have been doing. It’s all so important that these issues are discussed.

Beyond ‘corporate’ acknowledgement there are smaller initiatives. My leadership team have agreed that we should not be emailing the teams after working hours, at weekends and not have fifty emails waiting for them at 6am Monday. We have been really working on this over time, when my directs are on holiday I have a hard rule that says they go on holiday and switch off. It sends shivers when people say ‘yeah I am off but will be on email.’ Don’t do it, don’t do a poor job of your holiday and a poor job of working and at the end or it all, not properly relax. That’s no use to me. All my directs know how I feel on this and I encourage them to do the same. A break is vital.

So all good, we are on it as adults. We know however that education moves slower than industry, schools can get stuck in old fashioned ruts, they do not adapt fast enough. So here is the thing. Why is it good for us to switch off when the kids are getting homework on Fridays for the weekend, why is it ok for kids to come home and work when we get to take a break in the main, why is it ok for kids to have to work through holidays when we don’t. Have we forgotten that their minds are more fragile than ours, we are setting behaviours, we add to that stress with arguments about how hard they are trying or how well they are doing? Pressure, lack of rest, lack of relax, arguments and more. If we were to set this as our approach to the work environment we would not hold on to a single employee.

The worst of this is that it’s tough to say here is what we do about it..stop doing homework gets reprimand at school and depending on schools will leave kids behind. So it’s open ended but feel like we should keep talking about it and asking schools what they intend to do. Certainly my next parents evening, it will be my first question.